The Citabria breed has an AD requiring a one-time inspection of the wooden spar where they have to check it for cracks. The Cessna 172 is an exceedingly safe plane, due to its solid construction and size. On average, I can see 100 MPH while spinning the prop at just around 2300 RPM., I have owned two Cessna 150s, an F model that I purchased new in late 1965 and an M model that I purchased 39 years later in the fall of 2004. It also has a faster speed and a better range. Additionally, the airplane can be flown with a partially open canopy, which improves the experience even further. In the AG-5B, the 12-volt electrical system was replaced with a 24-volt system, and the refresh included several minor systems and aerodynamic improvements, plus improved corrosion coating. Krish discussed having to change some avionics, propeller, engine cowling, and after 300 hours of flying him and his partners also had to overhaul the 180hp engine, which cost a whopping $28,000. For more than 30 years, the 10-member club owned a Citabria. I am not very tall, and I cannot safely fly early Cessna 172s I need two cushions in order to reach the pedals and see outside clearly, and I once had one of them slip as I was about to land! That said, the Citabria is a good aircraft to use for tailwheel training. Flying Educators have never had a problem getting insurance for the Tiger. It's faster than a 172 and carries about the same load (typically about 800-850 lb useful), but is not as tolerant of grass or extremely short runways. Insurance for our 1979 Citabria (Model 7-ECA) was $870 in 89 and had risen to $2,195 when we sold it in 95, Greg said. The final variant of the AA-5 line was the AA-5B Tiger. And its either retractable, more horse power or probably both, OR AN RV which won't carry nearly as much. They fly well and are comfortable. 2023 Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association. Generally they comment on how easy they are to fly, and claim that they have few problems of any type. If your club wants to offer something different yet cost effective, a Citabria can help attract members who want to earn a tailwheel endorsement or do some aerobatic flying. The AA-5 series serves as an interesting alternative to the comparable Cessna and Piper models that make up the general aviation fleet. Among thedifferencesare enginesize,with variations from 115 hp to 180 hp, and whether the wing spar is metal or wood. site, simply click the Register button on the Pilots Place login page to sign Since four passenger capability andcross-country speeds werent a part of the mission, the Citabria was a perfect choice.. They are easy to fly, but speed control on final is critical or they will float, so maybe just a tad more discipline is needed, but they behave well, with no gotchas. Sitting in tandem provides an excellent view, and youre probably more likely to land on grass and go places you might not in a Cherokee or 172, which just adds to the experience. This month we will compare the two aircraft the Flying Educators have operated in their 57-year history the Citabriaand theGrumman Tiger. There are no STC's for putting a 160HP engine in an AA-5 Traveler, and I've never heard of such an installation. Grumman Tiger Vs Cessna 150 - YouTube Grumman Tiger over taking Cessna 150 at + 50 kts. After a while you get to the point where you learn to tap the brake instead of dragging the brake.". Depends. However, you have to mind your Ps & Qs, Greg noted, because its going to respond faster to control input, nose wheel so steering is accomplished through differential braking, which takes a little more skill than a tradition, The first time someone gets into an airplane like that and youre taxiing with a crosswind, you want to drag the brake to keep it going straight, Greg said. send a link to set up your password on the Pilots Place site, and when you Depending on how much exposure it has to the sun, it will need to be replaced generally about every 25 to 30 years. The Flying Educators did routine maintenance and annuals in-house with little difficulty, Greg said. The lineage began with Jim Bedes homebuilt BD-1, which first flew in 1963. Aero on Demand, a Houston-based club, also operates a Tiger and it is equipped with an engine monitor providing very accurate data. Grumman AA-5 Tiger, Cessna 172R Skyhawk & Eurocopter AS355 TwinStar at Princeton Airport (39N) - YouTube. The Cessna 172 has a larger engine, and so is correspondingly more powerful, and it has a higher cruise speed. I don't know the details of his financial situation, but I think he could pop for a Tiger without breaking a sweat. They have an unnamed policy, meaning they dont have to list their members or their flight time, so anyone who joins the club is insured. The cost of ownership includes the original purchase price of the airplane, then you have you fixed cost like hangar, insurance etc. If your club is looking for an economical aircraft that can serve as a primary trainer and a solid cross-country platform. Private and Commercial helicopter licenses and Instructor Rating were quickly added to her resume. The Tiger was the outcome of the same redesign work on the AA-5 Traveler that resulted in the 150 hp (110 kW) Cheetah and it was originally little more than the same aircraft with a Lycoming O-360-A4K 180 hp (130 kW) engine, resulting in a 139-knot (257 km/h) cruise speed. Perhaps because they are easy to fly, some pilots complain that both the Cessna 150 and the Cessna 172 are somewhat boring. The later versions produced in the 1990s and 2000s will cost a bit more with prices in the $75,000 to $100,000 range. Am I safe to buy a Cheetah, get IFR and build 200 hours then sell -- or will I get bored before then and wish I would have waited for a Tiger? Wow, that is a beautiful Tiger, congrats! Theyre fast little airplanes.. Both of these aircraft are made by Cessna and are fairly similar when it comes to flying. All was in order etc, just don't know much about the plane. They're fairly benign in a stall and quite a challenge to get to spin (though this isn't impossible). Did your friend get that on a field approval? Join Us | Member Benefits |News| Events |Contact Us. The most popular of the Grumman series, the Tiger seats four, has a 180-hp engine, and burns 10 gph. If you dont have an existing login on the Cessna 172 Club Additionally, the castering nosewheel is a simpler and lighter design than those used in most Cessnas and Pipers. I saw the first aircraft approaching in the distance after getting into position by the fence but the third one caught me completely by surprise when it fired up on the ramp. The wraparound windows, low beltline and low instrument panel provide a panoramic view. We have Combined with a panoramic canopy, nimble handling, relatively modest prices and thriving owners groups, the resulting blend of strengths makes these Grummans intriguing options for new and experienced owners alike. Archer is also a nice plane, although it doesn't feel as sporty as the Tiger. The Citabria is a derivative of the Aeronca Champ and was first produced in 1964 by Champion Aircraft Corporation. The hull is insured at $65,000 with $1 million liability. Insurance companies are all familiar with both these aircraft, so their charges are likely to be reasonable. I think the only way I would chose the Traveller of the Gruman line was because I could get a good airframe and avionics package and upgrade to 180hp cheaper than I could buy a Tiger for, and I don't really see that happening. Similar four-seat. Owners of both these aircraft types usually like them a lot. At the end of the day, Greg noted that most members fly solo or with only one passenger and, for that reason, the airplane has to be fun to fly, and it is. In the early 90s up to the when the Flying Educators sold the Citabria in 1995, the hourly rate was $21 wet, and the monthly club dues were $42. login you will see the new forum. Ill look around later for it. Otherwise, owners report that the AA-5 family is largely free of issues, and they enjoy great support and parts availability from companies such as Excel-Air Services in Indiana and Fletchair in Texas. Please head over to our new home at the Pilots Place Forum. Enjoy!Aircraft: N474EPC172ROutro Song:Gold Skies - Liam Aidan There should be few problems with maintenance for either of these aircraft types. If you have an autopilot, its a wonderful cross-country bird, Greg said. I've never heard anyone say the sliding canopy leaks. It's kinda underpowered for what we were doing with it, luckily no one was heavy and the distances weren't far. With a fixed-pitch propeller and fixed gear, it is simple to operate. While the difference between the two is by no means huge, the 152 is the more economical option. So if you plan to take the family on holiday or something similar, the Cessna 172 is probably what you will need. And what was involved in getting it approved? We have moved! Ron, correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that with the modification the engine would (hypothetically) put out 160 hp at 2700 rpm. Still, I think the additional climb rate of the Tiger makes it a better choice, even if speed is not a major concern. If it is a new paint job people have got stripper in the joints remember this plane is glued together and stripper in the glue is bad, make sure this did not happen. Members only needed a current medical, current flight review, CFI checkout with logbook entry for the club aircraft make and model, and at least 10 hours in tailwheel aircraft. Does he have it on Barnstormers, Trade a Plane etc. Now Krish does have 3 other partners who own the airplane with him. human checkbox, which will verify that you are indeed a human. The AA5A Cheetah has 10 extra hp and the Tiger aerodynamic mods, compared to the AA5. The Tiger is halfway between a sport plane and a Cessna 172. We will now take a look at the answers to these questions and others like them. I hang my head in shame. Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by WVTexan, Nov 21, 2013. Unless you want to go off airport. Free shipping . Just went with a friend to check one out. You should know that, despite the above, there are possibly more similarities than differences between the Cessna 172 and the Cessna 150. People tend to step on the seats just a problem of not knowing how to get in the plane, I believe the wing is a time life item and the end of the plane. , which as you know is fully aerobatic, Greg said. So which aircraft is better? Even if you dont use the Citabria for aerobatics, there is something romantic about flying a taildragger with a stick particularly one that is light and responsive to control inputs. Let us take a look now at these. Because there are so many of them, and they have been around a long time, there are a large number of mechanics and engineers who are familiar with what needs to be done to keep them in good working order, and obtaining parts for them should not be an issue either; they are easily available, even for the older Cessna 150s. The club usesAvemcoand pays $6,000 a year, but Greg noted that Florida is an expensivestate in whichto insure an aircraft because of hurricanes and the fact the state is highly litigious. include the 150-hp AA5 Traveler and AA5A Cheetah, and the 160-hp GA7 Cougar. Man erkennt eine AG-5B auch am T-frmigen Gashebel. CTAF audio is included. Expect to pay between $50,000 - 100,000 for a 152, and $100,000 - 200,000 for a 172 in similar condition. I this video, I take my friend Dominick to Bakersfield to pick up that C. Please contact the friendly folks at the Pilots Place for As with the AA-5A, the AA-5B was continued in production by Gulfstream when they purchased Grumman's American division. Grumman Tiger. Get the Tiger, you local flights will get boring after 100 hours and you'll want to stretch out to further destinations. Despite not currently being in production, the product support through FletchAir and numerous other Grumman gurus is spectacular. One operator I flew for we had a Traveller as a run around plane to gather guys in from remote strips (cheaper to fly it than the Ag planes if they need to be there tomorrow). Our 115-hpCitabriawas a fun, inexpensive aircraft that provided very stable air and ground handling for lower time pilots and entry-level aerobatic capabilities for more experienced pilots, Greg said. The Cessna 172, on the other hand, is still being produced. It could also be used for simple aerobatic training things like aileron rolls, loops, spins, and upset recovery. It will keep up with a 182. One of the challenges is finding instructors who can teach in it whether its tailwheel or aerobatic. The Cessna 172 is a lot heavier and more powerful than the Cessna 150, and when I did this conversion I found the Cessna 172 difficult to manage at first. The Cessna 172 is a lot more powerful than the Cessna 150. The Tiger is halfway between a sport plane and a Cessna 172. Cheetahs are around 850lbs. Every Cessna 172 or Cherokee 140 I fly with is quickly left in the dust by a good 10 to 15 knots. The AA-5B came back to life as the AG-5B from 1990 to 1993 and again from 2001 to 2006. If the full fuel payload is 580, you must be looking at one of the few built with the "standard" fuel tanks of 38 gal total/37 gal usable like the Travelers had. How do I So you should have no difficulty in finding one to buy, but it will of course be fairly old. Grumman Tiger over taking Cessna 150 at + 50 kts. many destinations within a 500-mile radius, including the Bahamas. You solo it from thefront so youve got good visibility, and, like the Champ it is derived from, it is an easy, forgiving airplane. It was developed from the 1948 Cessna 170 but with tricycle landing gear rather than conventional landing gear.The Skyhawk name was originally used for a trim package, but was later applied to . Greg noted that on a named. Ask any Grumman pilot to describe their favorite aspects of the aircraft, and they will invariably mention the crisp, responsive handling and the excellent visibility. But we were both fairly small, and we did have to limit ourselves to only a small amount of luggage, so as not to find ourselves with weight and balance issues. They're thrifty to run, simple to maintain, light on the controls and have great visibility with their sliding canopies. Every time I think of trading up, I have a hard time thinking of selling a really good airplane , The Cessna 150 is the best simple and economical airplane one could ask to own. Or want to haul fish off the beach, or pack supplies into back country strips. Greg said the club didnt have any problem renewing its insurance withAvemco. Its very responsive. Attention Cessna 172 Club Members! The Cessna 150 is a two-seater aircraft, whereas the Cessna 172 is a lot larger than the Cessna 150, having four seats. The four-place Grumman AA-5 family might be one of the better-kept secrets, offering the simplicity of a Cessna 172 while approaching the cruise speed of a similarly powered Mooney. What do I need to do? Your login, avatars, posts and archives have all be relocated there. But that is what most private pilots prefer to do. Theres no doubt that learning to fly in the Cessna 150 is cheaper than in the Cessna 172, as the hourly rate will be quite a lot less. Enter your email and click on the I am a It was largely a matter of economics, Greg said. AboutPressCopyrightContact. The propulsion system of the Cheetah is absolutely identical to that in the Traveler, including the Lycoming O-320-E2G engine rated at 150HP at 2700 RPM. Youre going to get more airspeed out of a Tiger than youre going to get out of most four-place aircraft in that category, Greg said. Jason McDowell. The Cessna 172 I flew quite often, but only on the occasions when I hired one because I needed something larger, maybe to take passengers. Nicest one Ive ever seen. ). Externally the Tiger looked much like the AA-5 Traveler and AA-5A Cheetah so once again Grumman's marketing department came up with a distinctive decal package to differentiate the design this time a "galloping tiger". To provide a more up-to-date cost perspective, the Wild River Flying Club in Osceola, WI operates a 1979 Citabria with a 150-hp Lycoming O-320. The Tiger I fly is 900lbs. The airplane received minor aerodynamic improvements for the 1975 model year, which was its last year of production. The AA-5 family is largely devoid of any major ADs or technical issues. The Aircraft Spotlight feature looks at an airplane type and evaluates it across six areas of particular interest to flying clubs and their members: Operating Cost, Maintenance, Insurability, Training, Cross-Country, and Fun Factor. Tiger owner here. The most popular of the Grumman series, the Tiger seats four, has a 180-hp engine, and burns 10 gph. To provide a more up-to-date cost perspective, the Wild River Flying Club in Osceola, WI operates a 1979 Citabria with a 150-hp Lycoming O-320. Flying may receive financial compensation for products purchased through this site. Grumman-American, on the other hand, never certified the AA-5x for 160 hp. Enter your Username and Password to log in. the Forgot Password link. Otherwise I can take a photo of the for sale sign at the airport sometime. Canopy is great when taxiing in the summer and in the pattern. As of this writing, 13 examples are listed at a median price of $48,500, with a median airframe time of 3,500 hours. She first obtained a fixed-wing Private Pilots Licence 25 years ago. Find more About Us here! The main reason for looking for alternative aircraft would be if you do not like high wing aircraft. So whats not to like? https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-and-ownership/aircraft-fact-sheets/cessna-150, https://executiveflyers.com/cessna-150-vs-172/, https://www.aviationconsumer.com/aircraftreviews/cessna-150/, https://singleenginepilot.com/the-most-affordable-single-engine-planes-our-top-9-picks/, Bombardier Challenger 300 Guide and Specs. Devoid of rivets and corrugated aluminum, its the secret behind the AA-5s speed. They can provide anything for the airplanewheels, wheel pants, windshields, cowlings, anything you need for a Tiger or similar Grumman aircraftthey can provide., Greg said the club didnt have any problem renewing its insurance with. The AG-5B is uncommon, with only 150 produced as compared to more than 3,000 Travelers, Cheetahs and AA-5B Tigers. I've never heard anyone say the sliding canopy leaks. Depends on his needs and his budget. ). Answer: You wont need a lot of extra tuition, but a few hours with an instructor would really be a good idea. The AA-5 series serves as an interesting alternative to the comparable Cessna and Piper models that make up the general aviation fleet. The main differences between the Piper Archer and Cessna 172 are: The Piper Archer has only one door on the right-hand side for access, whereas the Cessna 172 has two doors on each side of the aircraft. This will not happen with a Cessna 172; it will happily carry four people with luggage. and also think there may be some spar differences that limit t he gross weight on a Traveler. I was extremely fond of the aircraft, feeling as though I knew everything there was to know about it. Before I bought my Grumman Tiger, I was in a flying club and flew a Cessna Cardinal. One consideration is thatlong-termyou have to plan for fabric recovery and fabric repair. And that was the main consideration.. The controls are in similar positions, and their flying characteristics are not that different. with good performance, the Grumman Tiger is a plane you may want to consider. https://thepilotsplace.com/contact.html. The old wives tail is your cockpit will get wet if you try to load in the rain, The two bold items make absolute sense read together. This helps tremendously because all of the cost of ownership, flight and maintenance are all shared equally among the 4 partners.

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